national unified cpu architecture

 

想起日本的SUPER H了

SUPER H也是参考现有的东西

 

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/127791-china-plans-national-unified-cpu-architecture

 

China plans national, unified CPU architecture
By Sebastian Anthony on April 27, 2012 at 7:35

am40 Comments

According to reports from various industry

sources, the Chinese government has begun the

process of picking a national computer chip

instruction set architecture (ISA). This ISA would

have to be used for any projects backed with

government money — which, in a communist country

such as China, is a fairly long list of public and

private enterprises and institutions, including

China Mobile, the largest wireless carrier in the

world. The primary reason for this move is to

lessen China’s reliance on western intellectual

property.

There are at least five existing ISAs on the table

for consideration — MIPS, Alpha, ARM, Power, and

the homegrown UPU — but the Chinese leadership

has also mooted the idea of defining an entirely

new architecture. The first meeting to decide on a

nationwide ISA, attended by government officials

and representatives from academic groups and

companies such as Huawei and ZTE, was held in

March. According to MIPS vice president Robert

Bismuth, a final decision will be made in “a

matter of months.”

China has a long history with MIPS and Alpha.

Loongson processors, which power millions of

Chinese school computers, use MIPS — and the

ShenWei processors (pictured right) found in China

’s first homegrown supercomputer, the Sunway

Bluelight MPP, are based on the Alpha ISA. MIPS

Technologies (the company) hasn’t been doing very

well recently, and it’s rumored that the

Sunnyvale-based company could be up for sale — a

purchase I’m sure the Chinese government could

afford.

According to EE Times, there are some 34 ARM

licensees in China, but at $5 million for a single

Cortex-A9 core license, it’s unlikely that ARM

will be China’s choice. The Power ISA is cheaper,

but lacks the software ecosystems that ARM and

MIPS enjoy. ShenWei/Alpha is also a possibility,

but again it cannot compete with MIPS’ installed

base.

The other option, of course, is developing a brand

new ISA — a daunting task, considering you have

to create an entire software (compiler, developer,

apps) and hardware (CPU, chipset, motherboard)

ecosystem from scratch. But, there are benefits to

building your own CPU architecture. China, for

example, could design an ISA (or microarchicture)

with silicon-level monitoring and censorship —

and, of course, a ubiquitous, always-open backdoor

that can be used by Chinese intelligence agencies.

The Great Firewall of China is fairly easy to

circumvent — but what if China built a DNS and IP

address blacklist into the hardware itself?

Taking a leaf out of South Korea’s hardcore

gaming scene, what if the Chinese government

decided to implement a hardware-level 10pm curfew

for video games? Or some code that automatically

turns negative mentions of Hu Jintao (the Chinese

president) into positives, and inserts a few

honorifics at the same time. Or a latent botnet of

hundreds of millions of computers that can be

activated upon the commencement of World War III.

Or, or, or…

 

Angel Ham 5 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
Considering the hodgepodges they create with the

things they imitate I predict it's going to be a

SoC with two Intel cores, a nVidia GPU and will

also integrate four SPEs from the Cell processor.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 6 Likes F

 Joel Hruska 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
 Angel, that actually made me laugh.

I think you're forgetting Transmeta. It'll EMULATE

all those architectures using CodeMorphing

technology. :)

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Angel Ham 0

Like F

 Sebastian Anthony, Senior Editor, ExtremeTech 2

comments collapsed Collapse Expand
Joel laughed! Screenshot!

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Joel Hruska 0

Like F

 Angel Ham 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Pic link or it didn't happened.

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Sebastian

Anthony 0 Like F

 yetanotherbob 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Does that mean that Linus will be working in

Beijing???

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Joel Hruska 0

Like F

 m0r1arty, Never bet with your short bio content!

1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Propaganda jokes aside a shift onto their own

technology (Where they own the patents) would be a

massive boon for tech culture and could be adopted

by people all over the globe.

Current 'Western' policies would have to be

rethought to be competitive and we could move away

from the courtroom and back into the lab for

progression - that is unless governments try to

add 'tariffs and levies' onto the products sold by

their financial underwriters.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 5 Likes F

 Anonymous Anonymous 4 comments collapsed Collapse

Expand
The China process

Step 1: Conduct government financed industrial

espionage against US chip makers to steal various

semiconductor architectures

Step 2: Decide on which architecture to copy.

Step 3: Copy it.

Step 4: Sell back to the West at 1/10th the price.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 9 Likes F

 BigOkieTechie 2 comments collapsed Collapse

Expand
 Well they have done it for decades with bikes,

clothes, toys, etc.

Why not chips?

Vive le Wal-Mart?  lolz   X-D

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Anonymous

Anonymous 1 Like F

 some_guy_said 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
By the time the Chinese have the new chips on our

market, we'll be shopping at the Jintao Mart.  

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to BigOkieTechie

3 Likes F

 bootsattheboar 1 comment collapsed Collapse

Expand
 You forgot Step 5: Profit!

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Anonymous

Anonymous 3 Likes F

 Randall 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
I can't imagine anything better for Intel, AMD,

and ARM than competing against a ISA which was

designed by government bureaucrats :-0

A Like Reply 3 days ago 2 Likes F

 Maventwo 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Especially when the top of the communist party in

China have all  ingeneers who understand the

problem with that processor makers in China must

pay $5 millions for license ARMs processors.
Even if you make 1 million tablet pc with an ARM-

based processor you must pay to ARM.
If the licens amount was much less the chinese

risc-processor makers could make very cheap tablet

pc and Smartphones.

A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Randall 0 Like

F

 yetanotherbob 2 comments collapsed Collapse

Expand
Alpha architecture is quite powerful, and due to

various monopolies isn't used much here. The basic

chip architecture goes back to the mid 1970's, and

was intended to allow for very powerful computers.

Though an even simpler architecture would also

allow for some great innovations.

Before you snicker, consider that the basic Intel

architecture goes like it was really an 8 bit

computer. From a design viewpoint, Intel has never

been a great performer because of those original

limitations.

Also, Linux already runs just fine on Mips, Alpha,

Arm and Power, so software is not a problem.

Granted, games might be a little difficult, but

with an internal market of 500 Million, it won't

take the games folks long to port over to whatever

platform is chosen.

As for what the Chinese Government does, I would

predict that the chip microcode will be publicly

revealed/recoded within a week of chip release.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 1 Like F

 some_guy_said 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Alpha, ARM and Power are all somewhat similar,

being based on RISC architecture.  MIPS is

related, and has the same kind of goals. 

Essentially, all these architectures have the same

kind of advantages and disadvantages against x86

to varying degrees. (And many disadvantages can be

overcome with heterogeneous cores.)

"Though an even simpler architecture would also

allow for some great innovations."

umm, these are all reduced instruction

architectures.  It is possible to build a new

architecture and possible to innovate something

better, but it is also possible to build a better

mousetrap.  You're suggesting a lot of R&D for

something that may not pay off at all, and would

likely be incompatible with everything.

You do not need to change the architecture type to

optimize it for 32 bit or 64 bit.  You show little

faith that intel, or ARM or IBM (and company)

spent the time to update their architectures - and

provide absolutely no evidence other than your own

assumption.

"Granted, games might be a little difficult," 

I doubt that there are a lot of x86 games in

chinese to begin with...Given that they rely

heavily on other architectures already, censorship

and the fact that the government seems to be

slanted against gaming...

"I would predict that the chip microcode will be

publicly revealed/recoded within a week of chip

release."

Gosh, your comments sound intelligent on the

surface, but really....RTA - The chinese

government is looking for an existing

architecture...the microcode is already

available...

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to yetanotherbob

0 Like F

 Lupius 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
Seb, some of the ulterior motives that you

mentioned are just way too impractical. Hardware

coded censorship? Totally useless unless they

update the latest sensitive topics weekly, and if

there's a mechanism for that then the Chinese

hackers will find a way to replace it with a blank

list and entirely defeat the purpose.

Same deal with the backdoors and the curfews. If

you underestimate your civilian hackers, you'll

find them biting you in the ass.

Now a botnet for world war III, wouldn't that be

something...

A Like Reply 3 days ago 1 Like F

 Sebastian Anthony, Senior Editor, ExtremeTech 1

comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Yeah, I admit some of those ideas are a little too

wacky -- but hey, they're just ideas :)

Thanks for taking the time to comment!

A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Lupius 0 Like

F

 yetanotherbob 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
The Bureaucrats won't be designing the chip, they

will be selecting the instruction set that they

feel makes them owe the least to any non-Chinese

entity. There will probably be several chips that

then use the same instruction set.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F

 adlucier 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
If they come up with a competitive product, and

use an existing ISA with a decent code base there

could be a serious issue here...  Because the

Chinese government will subsidize the chip

development and manufacturing and sell it for

nothing basically.... which is what china does

with everything.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F

 some_guy_said 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Let's face it: The biggest business in the world

is China. and no amount of antitrust lawyers can

stop them.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F

 Peter Donovan 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
ISA/Architecture level magic can be reverse

engineered by replaying triggering sequences.
So yeah, the Chinese can add hidden magic, but it

wouldn't be on a published architectural level
and it wouldn't necessarily be dependent on any

particular architecture.
More simply, your speculations on monitoring and

censorship are unrelated to the adoption of any

particular architecture.
NSA and friends are already very concerned about

detecting and analyzing hardware trojans inserted

during fabrication, which is a very real threat.

A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F

 Gabe 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
You hear that American Government Officials!! They

are trying to reduce their dependence on "western

intellectual property." Why don't we do the same

damn thing to them. I am sick of everything made

in China. Screw them

A Like Reply 3 days ago 1 Like F

 John Smith 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Too late. If I remember correctly one reporter

from Financial Times wanted to calculate how much

Apple is saving by placing production of

iPad/iPhone in China instead of States. Result of

his investigation - it is impossible to compare

since electronic manufacturing is now only

possible in Asia, supply chain in USA is

completely broken and would be very hard to

restore if possible at all.

A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Gabe 1 Like F

 Jan-Willem Wisgerhof 1 comment collapsed Collapse

Expand
Very interested to see what they cook up. They do

have the technology and knowledge to maybe produce

a "copy" of a current architecture.

A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F

 gradkiss 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Hopefully people will be doing more than

assembling computers using various parts from

different distant countries in the uSA ..one day

in the future? I used to just use whatever from

the radio shack,etc and not one politician where I

lived had one thing to say to all of us doing the

same exact things, talking on CB's and kicking

around town...we had an FCC license and took a

short simple exam...and even got call numbers like

6w885 as a good example...watched Cable tv from

antennae up on Happy-top. (mountain) went out

camping, fishing, the regular stuff you could just

walk short distance and get to...like the back

yard facilitated something other than a secluded

place to smoke dope those days.The stock market

never did anything for us, and we were not likely

then ... to be involved.
I usually do not get too excited over computers,

processors or even China...I have always

determined that I should not be, due to one

fact...I live somewhere else and surely do not

need the added responsibility to run around the

globe with paper in a brief case to prove I am a

manager of my own home.
I honestly like living where we do not need a

lawyer but for the regular stuff like

marriages...or to provide a witness someone shook

each other's hands in an agreement that had a

period of time to actually reach the conclusion of

the agreement.
That day is gone in the uS. Really...bring it back

then.
Invent another sparc...but please call it

something else...Oracle is not a good choice

either.
Everyone have a good day.

A Like Reply 2 days ago 1 Like F

 quadibloc 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Hey, they could implement the architecture I

describe on my web site...

A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F

 Taras Buljba 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Entirely inappropriate ! USA is no.1 world evil

empire. USA constantli seeks wars and peoples to

kill and plunder, not China!

A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F

 raycote 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Delusional control freaks !

They really don't get do they !

A Like Reply 2 days ago 1 Like F

 Maventwo 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
China wants of course to own hole chain of

semiconductor industry parts, not only make IC

which have been developed abroad and partly inside

China and manufctored in China.
China have the amibiton to develop holw chain av

different parts of the semiconducting industry
and in this progress they want not to be forced to

pay license costs to companies abroad like ARM,
Imagination Technolgies,MIPS,Texas Instruments or

a holw bunch of western companies in developing of

semicounductors.

China ambition will be dangerous for western

countries, not now but within 10 years!

A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F

 Charbax, Video-blogger 7 comments collapsed

Collapse Expand
It makes no sense to compete with ARM, ARM

dominates the world. Over 6 billion ARM processors

are shipped every year. China can afford ARM

licencing and China can sit with ARM and negotiate

some longer term licencing deals that can also

include collaborating with Chinese engineers on

the future direction and development of the ARM

technologies.

A Like Reply 2 days ago 1 Like F

 Maventwo 6 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
But as you know, the IC development years ahead

will be in 3D IC with TSV=Through-Silicon-Vias

will make the processors and solid memories much

faster than today´s processors and solid memories

because of much shorter signal ways.

Moore´s law will continue but not only becuase of

smaller geometries but mostly because 3D IC with

TSV as connection instead of thread bonding

between 3D IC.

More about TSV from Appliedmaterials web site.
http://www.appliedmaterials.co...

As you maybe know is MIPS for sale and the chinese

cpu:s Godson and Loongson are based on MIPS risc-

processors.

So, chinese own risc-processor industry can be in

the long run
a competitor to ARM especially for asian processor

makers.

A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Charbax 0 Like

F

 Charbax, Video-blogger 5 comments collapsed

Collapse Expand
Godson and Loongson went nowhere, was a waste of

time. If China wants to continue in that

direction, it'll be their problem. It's better to

work with the British than to work with the

Americans, China should know by now.

A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Maventwo 0 Like

F

 Maventwo 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
But if a chinese processor maker buys MIPS, this

will change to advantage for Chinese government

intensions to be a power even in the semiconductor

business.

A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Charbax 0 Like

F

 Charbax, Video-blogger 3 comments collapsed

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even if they buy mips, its still american, the

ecosystem that they'd buy is dominated by american

interests, it's a ridiculous idea. Its like buying

into a 10 year deficit in technological advances

and a huge leap backwards for the chinese IT

development. But again, they still have that

moronic chinese firewall slowing down their

internet development, so why knows, maybe the same

morons are in charge of strategising about this

national processor strategy.

A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Maventwo 0 Like

F

 Maventwo 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
But real innovating comes from below, for making

things cheaper
and more rational to make.So, chinese based risc-

processors
will change hole market if China decide to do this

in risc-architucture.
China will have big impact not only in making

electronic thing like Smartphones or cheap

computers, they will also make struggle in the

semiconductor industry to be a big player in

constructing
of semiconductor devices in all fields.

A Like Reply 11 hours ago in reply to Charbax 0

Like F

 Charbax, Video-blogger 1 comment collapsed

Collapse Expand
It makes absolutely no sense to compete with ARM.

On an iPhone sold for $650 on the market, ARM gets

maybe $1 in licencing per phone. On a $199 Chinese

phone, that licencing is probably below $0.5 per

phone. China has nothing to save in doing another

architecture, except total incompatibility with

the rest of the world, total lack of participation

in the rest of the worlds processor innovations,

if China wants to be left behind and if they want

to shoot themselves in the foot, then yes they

should not use ARM and they should play around

with some alternative thing.

A Like Reply 11 hours ago in reply to Maventwo 0

Like F

 fteoOpty64 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
They cannot stick with just one ISA because it is

not optimized for all tasks. MIPS for low power,

and Alpha for HPC would be the way to go. But the

software infrastructure has to follow in order for

any platform to grow. This means somehow getting

Alpha type co-processor boards into PC based

development systems. This would be a costly effort

as 86-X64 continues to storm ahead in the desktop

and laptop space in the millions every year. The

whole venture cannot succeed because it would be

alienating the rest-of-the-world which becomes a

huge dilemma for both sides.

Just look at the Rest-of-the-world. ARM for

mobile, X86 for desktop and X86 for HPC.

Effectively only two ISA for everything possible

and plenty of software around with millions of

developers in the commercial space. Does the

Chinese not realise that license for hardware IP

is just a fraction of the cost of any device ?.

Are they looking at the wrong thing here ?.

A Like Reply 1 day ago 0 Like F

 Alessandro Malanca 1 comment collapsed Collapse

Expand
May be they will have bits holding seven values

(0..6 or A..G or Do,Re,Mi ..Si).
Obviously it cannot go faster than light.
Hope it will be able to to do massage
https://sites.google.com/site/...

A Like Reply 15 hours ago 0 Like F

 Bennie Kloosteman 1 comment collapsed Collapse

Expand
It will be home grown or at best licenced ARM with

FULL development rights and made in China.. They

will throw big $$ so some company will sell it to

them for the CEO bonus next year... Only to make a

competitor in 5-10 years.

My hunch is Arm they are in the licencing business

anyway.

A Like Reply 14 hours ago 0 Like F

 fortycal_sig 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
So the Chinese government is going into business

architecting hardware now?  Ridiculous.

A Like Reply 14 hours ago 0 Like F

 Howard Harkness 1 comment collapsed Collapse

Expand
I am definitely *for* this initiative by the PRC.

Having a unified, government-dictated CPU

architecture will significantly reduce their

ability to compete with freer countries.

A Like Reply 13 hours ago 0 Like F
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